The new Ford Orion...

[ford_fanatic]

...Meet the new Ford Focus Saloon.

http://www.ford.co.uk/spg/getImage.asp?imageName=SPG_3_28_0_21221.jpg&filename=SPG

Its fricken massive and looks just like a Mondeo saloon. Kinda dissapointing really :(
The Orion never looked like a Sierra Saphire!

I Kinda like the 5 door hatchback Focus Zetec I have to admit though.

[frickinevilpaint]

It looks a lot like the Volvo S40 from the side. I wonder if any of the glass is the same with it being effectively the same car.

[ford_fanatic]

Its horrible :(

I sat in one the other day. This was a Titanium model (above Ghia) with a diesel engine (oh dear). Its pretty nice inside, apart from the odd cheap bit of plastic. Outside however, its just awful looking :!: Its ENOURMOUS too! I swear if you parked an old shape Mondeo saloon next to this, it would shadow out the Mondeo. Infact its not much smaller looking that the current Mondeo. No Orion though :roll:

[Maxxed_Ross]

It doesn't look that bad to be honest :?

The last Focus saloon was a right awful looking car, but then some bright spark up in Aberdeen put a bodykit and big wheels from the new mondeo ST220 on it - and kaching! It actually looked smart! Weird sounding I know but you would have to see it. 8)

[ford_fanatic]

Yeah they wern't bad with some body kit on them and decent alloy wheels. The Focus saloon (or should I say Sedan) is very popular in America in comparison to the hatch. Weird 2.0 engine though... deffinately not a Zetec

[frickinevilpaint]

I must say i have always had hatchbacks until my latest car and i can see the benefits and drawbacks of both. I think some cars look better as hatchbacks and the focus is certainly one of them. The hatch isn't that inspiring at the moment because only the lowly models are available so far. I have seen pictures of the ST version with the five cyl. engine and it looks a lot better. Certainly miles better than this horrid saloon pictured here. It is a shame Ford have dropped plans for the RS version. One minute Ford deserves massive respect for icons like the FORD GT and the next minute it looses it for canning a cossie successor. Its nice that Ford make exciteing cars for people with 90 grand plus to spend (FORD GT, Aston Martin DB9 etc) but i think they are missing out on the market for sub 30K rockets. Subaru and Mitsibishi have this market sown up but a similar performance Ford product would easily take a slice of this market. Now that Ford make decent cars the RS badge would be just to tempting. Even to a BMW man like me!

Going off topic, The new focus saloon is hideous. It is not a patch on the original Junior Executive saloon, the Orion. The Orion is now in many peoples eyes a classic, where as the Focus saloon is just an eye-sore.

[ballsie]

A Cosworth Focus would be a huge risk for FMC. Back in the day, there was nothing to compete with the Sierra then the Sapphire and finally the Escort. As you rightly say, Subaru (more so) and Mitsubishi have this end of the market all sewn up. A Cossie would have to be very special to temp buyers away from the Japanese world rally replicas.

I've always been a fan of the blue oval so if it was good, I could be severely tempted.

[big si]

for driver enjoyment and involvement you cant beat the cossie all of them.
the thing that annoys me about the mitsi and sub are the fact that the computers kick in and save your ass all the time killing the driver input.

i think a focus cosworth would be a great success because it would be a purebreed motor car and enthusiasts would snap them up

[ford_fanatic]

+being a Ford you just know its gonna be good to drive :!:

I just got a shot of the g/f's Ford Ka tonight. Was great fun... like driving a go cart!

[Maxxed_Ross]

...the thing that annoys me about the mitsi and sub are the fact that the computers kick in and save your ass all the time killing the driver input...

I'd be tempted to say thats a good thing. Last thing you want to do is crash your new £25K+ machine into a ditch because you went a tiny wee bit over the limit. We all know the only way to find the limits of a car is the step over it :x

And another point the computer should only kick in to "save your ass" if you're driving like a right dobber in the first place :D

[stulec52]

And another point the computer should only kick in to "save your ass" if you're driving like a right dobber in the first place :D

um, have you seen your own avatar :? :D

[big si]

ross the computers in these cars work all the time at every corner



and mr lackie has a point :lol:

[Maxxed_Ross]

Yeah it's an old civic going sideways... :D

Having the computer there to save you is a good thing everyday use wise so that you won't crash if the car decides to do something unexpected, say when your wife or girlfriend is driving you home from the pub... but surely you can turn it off when you want at tracks and stuff?

If you can't then yeah that is a bit of a pain :?

[big si]

on all the time son its the cars brain (god there alive)

[Maxxed_Ross]

Hmm weird. Suppose it could be turned off tough... You see loads of evo's doing crazy stuff so there must be a way 8)

[big si]

it is on all the time its the same technology as the skyline the computer varying the power to each wheel

[Maxxed_Ross]

Hmmmmmm s k y l i n e :D

Ah so it has active diff control. That shouldn't interfere with driving that much, if anything it'll make it handle better through the twisty bits :?

[big si]

you have completely missed my point it interfeers with the driving because it sorts out so many things for you





where is the fun in that :?

[Colin Barclay]

Does the Eve not have Active Yaw Control aswell as an active centre diff?

[big si]

i think so but not too sure

[Maxxed_Ross]

I havn't missed the point, I just can't see why that's a bad thing :)

Anything that makes the car easier to drive fast and harder to crash is a very good thing in my book 8)

[big si]

but it makes it no fun to drive when a car drives itself so to speak

[Stuart]

... but surely you can turn it off when you want at tracks and stuff?

If you can't then yeah that is a bit of a pain :?

Technically you can by "disabling" it by removing the fuse, but not advisable on the roads.

[frickinevilpaint]

The same thing happened with planes. Fighters like the Eurofighter and F117 stealth have aerodynamics determined by expected performance and intended task, not to give it stable balanced flight. With manual controls these planes would fall out of the air and a computer interprets the pilots command and translates it into a response from the control surface. Pretty much the pilot tells the plane what direction to turn and it works out what is the best way to do this.

This is a noticable phenomenon in modern cars and one suspects that these computer devices are often used to mask the shortfalls in a chassis or a cars handling. I think i would prefer my car to have minimal computer intervention nomatter what the maneouvre being performed and just a well set up chassis to do the work where it matters. One wonders what an evo, skyline or new ford focus would handle like with all these computers disabled! Probably direly!

That is not the point, as people probably said the same when disc brakes were introduced. These devices will save lives and let more people enyoy their cars.

So many new cars are said to handle quite well when their predecesors were slated (ie vectra) and I suspect that these esp and ebd programs have played a part in this. I think these computers are an atractive and cheap way of making a crap chassis seem like it handles ok. I mean how poor is it that you have to press a botton that says 'sport' on it to have some fun!? There is another way to make your car handle amazingly; stick the engine at the front and the driven wheels at the back! I better stop just there lol!

[ballsie]

You can buy the Evo IX in GT guise with no Active Centre Diff or Super Active Yaw Control - its still the business for handling.

Early Evos didn't have those toys - did you see the direct comparision of the Evo VIII MR FQ340 against the Evo I on a slalom course? There was absolutely nothing in it.

Moral of the story - it's 2005, buyers are concerned with safety, hence, the weight of cars is going up and up. What do we have to do to compensate - pile on the power and control it with electronic gizmos.

I really don't get rear drive - an M3 CSL is supposed to be one of the best handling rear drive, front engined cars - it was still owned by 2 or so seconds around the Top Gear test track by an VIII MR FQ320!

[Grant Barclay]

one thing i would say is that as these are just advancements in technology. why not use them?

[ford_fanatic]

Modern cars mearly reflect upon the 'nanny state' that Britain has become. Modern cars are heavier and slower, but yes they are becoming better handlers due to all these electronics.

Modern cars though are also becoming more and more difficult to see out off too! I know I seem to continually slag the 206, but hey its a good example of this...it may very well have an airbag and ABS brakes... but we can avoid using those 'freindly' features on the car if we can avoid the accident in the first place! But since you can barely see what traffic is coming when you approach a roundabout in the 206 due to the thickness of the front pillars, your more likely to have an accident and have to use the airbag!

The new Mini (which I'm not algging at all...I really like the new mini!) suffers the same problem. Having a crash in the old mini is probably a similar experience to crashing in a car made from photocopying paper...but you can see out it oh so much better!

[Maxxed_Ross]

Was the M3 CL not the car that was beaten (on tarmac) by a 12 man tug-o-war team (on grass)? :lol:

I get the idea with electronics. You all seam to love F1 so much but the cars are just electronics now - the driver is just there to point it in the right direction these days :x

but they do make the everyday car safer and better to drive, therfore a big plus :D

The new Mini (which I'm not algging at all...I really like the new mini!) suffers the same problem. Having a crash in the old mini is probably a similar experience to crashing in a car made from photocopying paper...but you can see out it oh so much better!

I dunno where you're getting that from Stu, I've always thought the mini was ok for front vis. Ok the A piller looks huge from the outside (probably because it is :lol: ) but with the seating position and the sharp angles of the glass it works out ok 8)

[stulec52]

I really don't get rear drive

Maybe go back to when cars were simpler, pick up an oldie like an Escort circa 1970's and just have fun. That's what motoring should be about.

[John Lindsay]

Stick the arse out is what Stu Leckie is saying :

My dad's escort with tail hanging out - http://www.rcracechat.com/pp/showphoto.php?photo=66&cat=508&page=2

Colin Mcrae's New escort with tail hanging out - http://www.crccc.org/images/uploaded/gallery/generated/genpic_600_450_DSCF0091.JPG

Tony Thompsons Evo understeering :cry: - http://www.srcpics.com/gallery/albums/album263/7C6W7225.jpg

Ford Focus WRC Understeering :cry: - http://www.srcpics.com/gallery/albums/src2005borders/BORD05005.sized.jpg

Yes OK I know 4WD cars tend to understeer more but, tell me which cars would you rather be in??? The Exciting Escorts or Wallowing WRC's which have electronic diffs and all that kind of ****e.


John

[big si]

go on son you tell em :lol:

[ballsie]

That's all well and good but try that on every corner on the open road and see what happens!

I'd rather be in the modern rally car to be honest - why live in the past when the world has moved on? All the WRC cars are 4wd for a reason - in the "real world" its quicker. I'd rather take a bend with the car sitting flat at 90 that with the arse hanging out at 70 - don't get me wrong though, there's always a time and place for a little arse out fun on the exit of a wet roundabout :D

I must fight the battle for 4WD !!!!! :lol:

[Maxxed_Ross]

I'm with you on that mate :D

Arse out looks good but as I have proved on wood it ain't very fast :D

[stulec52]

got nothing to do with fast, after all the roads do have speed limits, it's about how wide the grin is on your face after a drive.
Mind you my last car had a 5.7 in it.... yes it was fast

[John Lindsay]

When Colin competed on the recent RSAC Scottish Rally in the car pictured in my last post, he would have finished fourth overall had it not been for a gearbox problem which cost him a minute stuck in top gear.

This was against top of the range 4WD equipment too, the winner of the rally was Barry Johnson in Petter Solbergs WRC Winning Impreza, so in the right hands arse oot driving isn't that slow.

As everyone says, it just looks better, WRC cars need to be going really fast to be exciting!


John

[big si]

thats exactly what i have been saying stu its all about fun

im not saying you cant have fun in something like an evo its just not the same kind of fun.




to me its going into a bend and getting the car right but with an evo/scoob
that element of fun is gone the car does all the work

[stulec52]

agreed then, we all have differing tastes when it comes to our cars
Excellent, as what a dull world it would be if everyone thought the same way.

Back to the original topic though, and mostly for Stuart H.
do you guys get this model?
http://www.ford.ca/english/images/showroom/FordCars/Fivehundred/exterior/ss_ext7.jpg
Quite a nice looking Audi A8 sized car.

Also, these are pretty spanky:
http://www.ford.ca/english/images/showroom/FordCars/Mustang/exterior/ss_ext4.jpg

This is not my taste...
http://www.ford.ca/english/images/showroom/FordCars/taurus/exterior/ss_ext2.jpg

and a big old man car:
http://www.ford.ca/english/images/showroom/FordCars/GrandMarquis/exterior/ss_ext5.jpg

[Maxxed_Ross]

We get the Mustang but that's it from that lot. A guy in my estate has just traded his original corvette for one (the mad man - the 'vett was far cooler :D ). It's some size of machine though, it rumbles through my street most days :)

[big si]

I must fight the battle for 4WD !!!!! :lol:


its not really a battle against 4WD. i personally would love a 4WD car. but my point is where are all the real 4WD cars. Like the old Quatros there were no active diffs etc in those and even today on the track these trounce the fancy new 4WD systems and for one reason and that is they make you drive them and make you think.
i know some of you will slate me for this but hey its my opinion.
but before you do here me out i know the computers make new cars more useable in day to day life and im all for that but for me its old school all the way

[Maxxed_Ross]

I must fight the battle for 4WD !!!!! :lol:

I'll be joining you as soon as I can afford to insure one :lol:

What is the maximum fine for driving without insurance? If it's less than 2k it might be an option :lol: :wink:

I dunno how insurers can justify charging me well over a grand third party f&f for a poxy 1.3 Fiesta when I'm not here half the year! :evil:

[John Lindsay]

I'm a strong believer that it was the introduction of electronic aids which brought about the end of Colin McRae's WRC Career, in 1995 active diffs were unheard of and he was really quick and hence won the championship, that was when the driver had to work for results however when he joined Ford after that his pace dropped, also with Citroen he could not manage with the active diffs and whatever else they had thrown in the fancy dashboard.

Jimmy McRae told us that all he needs is a rev counter and a big red light to tell you if its fu**ed. Well Said Jim!!



John

[stulec52]

just to go off topic a little bit
Did anyone else ever see Colin McRae driving the BMW M3 at Knockhill in the Touring car race? I think it would have been a Frank Sytner car.
Anyway, so Andy Rouse and all those tin top racer types are all coming bombing up the straight headed for Duffus, well they all swoosh up nice as you like brake in a nice straight line, drive through nice and neat and tidy and off they go....
Not 'ooor Colin, oh no, he gets to Duffus hanging the arse of this beemer right out and just goes down through it lock to lock swinging wildy but looking in control the whole time.

The point to the story is that the tourers types were faster in lap times, but McRae looks to be having the best fun, the crowd just loved it !
oh but his tyres were also pooched by about lap 5... still he was bloody entertaining ! :D

[Big Gordy]

You should see Colin and his brother Alistair on quads :shock: They are both absolutely MENTAL :shock: The motocross club have a quad round included in there Boxing Day Extravaganza and Colin, Alistair and Robbie Head are all regular entrants. Robbie Head isnae slow either on a quad I can tell you. Alistair was gonna turn pro motocrosser until he buggered his knee's :cry: so took up rallying :roll: 8)

[Maxxed_Ross]

Yeah Alistair is a total nutter on a quad :shock: But then again it seems most quad racers are :D

At the round last year there was a small issue about track direction, so when it came to the quad practice session some of the field went left after the starting straight and some went right :lol: But did they stop to find out who was right? No they kept on belting round the track and almost met in the middle :lol: :lol: :lol:

I wanted a go but no one would let me borrow their quad :(

[mac_angel]

so, u think my ka is a go kart!!!!!!!!!!!! Aero is terminal btw so i need to replace her :-( very unique car paint and all

[ballsie]

Love the avatar :)

[ford_fanatic]

Hey babe...

Calling the Ford Ka a go cart is a compliment I asure you!

Go carts are mega fun to drive...the Ka is mega fun to drive!

[Maxxed_Ross]

I spy a bit of back peddling there Stu :lol:

I'm not a great fan of the Ka because of the silly shape, but I know a guy with one and he loved it because it was, as he put it, "chuckable" :lol: (past tense....it ended upside down in a ditch near Stonehaven :lol: )