Brushless motor systems

[madmac]

Hi All;
I have been doing a lot of research about brushless motor systems; it seems to me to be a no contest as far as price is concerned.
I estimate I will need 3 stock motors for the year and a set of brushes every race night to stay competitive (I know I’m not that competitive but I like to try my hardest) so the costs for a years racing stock just at Falkirk will be.

3 motors @ £30.00 each
18 set of brushes @ £2.99 per set
The total just for the stock nights racing will be £143.82

This is about the same price as a complete brushless system, not a top of the range one I know but it would buy a mid level system.
And all this is without taking into account the 19t racing nights.

I know it was quite a close run thing at the AGM to allow these systems at the club but I think if people had been better informed about the savings over the longer term it would have been passed.
There are systems coming onto the market at a much more club racer friendly price range which with their low maintainance would be ideal for club racing.

I would like to hear comments good or bad. The pros and cons and if there are enough people in favour of this what’s the way forward?

Looking forward to reading the replies.

Many regards

Mark Ewing

[big si]

for your £143.82 you could buy the new lrp brushless system

speedo £60
13.5 motor £40
10.5 motor £40

thats £140 all in. all year or forever (or until you blow up your motor lol)

and you would still have £3.82 to spend on sweets and juice :lol:

oh and than you have the bonus of no motor maintanance ever apart from a wee bit oil in the bearings every 6 months or so no skimming or brushing or running in new brushes christ it would be bliss

[Garrypd160]

Si,

Where have you seen the LRP motors for those prices. I have searched but couldn't find them anywhere near that cheap.

As one of the advocates for brushless, and someone who has been running it for a while, I would recommend that people stay away from the Novak GTB. I have run that and the LRP SPhere, and the LRP is a far better speed controller.

I have run my brushless motor for over 6 motnhs now, and last week was the first time i took it apart to oil the bearings. They didn't need done, and could easily have went another 6 months, so they truly are no maintenance. You will hear a lot of reports about thermalling and shutting down. Well I have run my motor from a 28tooth pinion to a 44 tooth, and never had a problem. I just dont think you could make it thermal, no matter what you do. I have never had one bit of bother and couldnt recommend it any more.

The only possible problem that I see, and its the fault of the motor manufacturers, is that there is no standard. My original novak 13.5 motor has a bonded rotor, adjustable timing and 165watts of power (and its on par with a brushed motor. The novak 13.5 motor that you could buy now has a sintered rotor and fixed timing, also with 165watts of power. LRP 13.5 motor( which is there 23t equivalent) has a bonded rotor and 155w power. The 15.5 that they advertise as being equivalent to a 27t has 135w power. So, how do you say what is allowed. If you allow the lrp motor, then people will complain its faster because its advertised as faster. If you dont allow it, people will complain the 15.5 is too slow. If you only allow bonded rotors, then no1 would be able to buy a novak at all.

The manufacturers have pretty much screwed it for us all!! :erm:

[big si]

Si,

Where have you seen the LRP motors for those prices. I have searched but couldn't find them anywhere near that cheap.




i cant remember where i saw it but thats the guide price aparently but im not sure if its out yet!

its purely aimed at the club racer

[Garrypd160]

Yeh I have seen the motors you are talking about, and they do 2 budget speedos. But the cheapest I have seen the motors is £70. I've heard that they would be available for £50 but not seen any evidence of this yet

[big si]

here we are chape my mistake its nosram not lrp but they are the same thing anyway

http://www.mirageracing.com/productRange.php?makeId=NR&catId=EMOT&subCatId=BRLE&searchTerms=make%3ANR+cate%3AEMOT+subc%3ABRLE

http://www.mirageracing.com/productRange.php?makeId=NR&catId=SPD&subCatId=BRLE&searchTerms=make%3ANR+cate%3ASPD+subc%3ABRLE


evil brushless reverse esc and the dragon motors

[Garrypd160]

Excellent. It was the nosram ones I had seen too, but mirage didnt have them on their site then. Must have been updated. best get a 10.5 ordered :lol:

Only they dont have the 10.5 in stock :-(

[bigchris]

hi
nosram Evil or Lrp aI brushless are the same kit only different colour

the £65 one does stock and the £84 will do both stock and 19 , the sphere comp is 145 and 175 depending on the shop

go for the sphere if you can afford it , does everything , switches between brushed and brushless automatically , and is as easy to program as a dominator or a QC2

motors , the stock and 19turn are 39.99 on Ebay , this is rrp i believe

doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out whats cheaper in the long run

downside as garry says is there is no standard , and the only champs in scotland you can use the mod one in is the srca , and the stock version is aallowed at ayr and dundee i believe

i think we should push for its inclusion in the SRCA in 19 turn form and in the SCC

chris

[big si]

i dont see why not chris as brushless is already allowed in mod in the srca so why not 19t i honestly cant see why not. can anyone see different?


thanks for making me aware of the compatibility of the 2 different speedos i never realised there was a difference

[big si]

if you look at it from the worst case

you buy a top of the range kit plus a 19t equivilent and a 27t equivilent motors say it totals £300 in my eyes you are saving from the day you put them in the car no skimming no running in no brushing christ where do i sign up :lol:

[KC]

I just want one so I can run the novak 4.5 motor.

OH YEAH!

[ballsie]

You running at Stonehaven Kenny?

I was thinking Brushless too.

[Malcolm Williams]

Thought you guys would like to browse this site of Microtech for your choice and prices etc.

http://www.microtechracing.com//product_select.asp?ID=1673&Pcat=ELECTRIC%26nbsp%3BMOTORS&list_type=Z&Name=BRUSHLESS

They seem to have the ones your talking about plus the I presume 19 and 27 turn equivalents.

They also have the Speed controllers too

http://www.microtechracing.com//product_select.asp?ID=1831&Pcat=ACCESSORIES&list_type=Z&Name=SPEED+CONTROLLERS

Happy browsing
Malky

[Garrypd160]

Yeh only they dont have them in stock, and neither do Mirage. So dont get your hopes up of getting one any time soon. Was over a month for my Novak one.

[Kevin Falconer]

i dont see why not chris as brushless is already allowed in mod in the srca so why not 19t i honestly cant see why not. can anyone see different?

it is allowed in mod because mod is open, 19 turn is not

[big si]

ah i c

kev can you define "open" as its always struck me as abit of a loose term!

[big si]

I just want one so I can run the novak 4.5 motor.

OH YEAH!



why settle for the 4.5 when they do a 3.5 :twisted:

i would even start a bet to see if you could desolder it :lol:

[Kevin Falconer]

ah i c

kev can you define "open" as its always struck me as abit of a loose term!

perhaps when i said open it should read "any brushed or brushless, 6 cell's, no lipo" which leaves you free to run as mild or as wild motor as you like or can handle

[big si]

thank you kind sir

[Kevin Falconer]

dont mention it kind sir.

[bigchris]

Si been there and tried to reason , brushless equvelants behave the same on track as brushed but folk seem to not understand this lol

i will keep campaigning lol

chris

[Malcolm Williams]

Any of you guys checked Microtechs site recently, the Casle Creations Mamba Max's seem reasonable at £151.99 for the combo setups complete with disc and usb connection cable etc. they are going fast off their shelves too.
The 7700 would suit you Kenny, 55000 - 60000 rpm plus with your super batteries. Watch the wall at the far end M8 with your buggy Ha Ha

[Dan]

Insider info: There's going to be a brand new Novak GTB and 3.5R motor in the Much More GP raffle ;)

[ballsie]

I've already bought my motor for the GP - speedo to follow when it returns back into stock.

Have a guess which one I bought.

* hint - see below \/

[big si]

christ knows ballsie

not got a clue

[niall_cochran]

the orion?

[Dave]

Orion Vortex 4.5

[Dan]

I go with Dave, Vortex 4.5??

[ballsie]

yup :)

[Dan]

yup :)

With what speedo?

[hpi1503]

Insider info: There's going to be a brand new Novak GTB and 3.5R motor in the Much More GP raffle ;)

you got this off tamiyaclub.com lol

[Dan]

you got this off tamiyaclub.com lol

I don't understand?? It's direct from Charlie Suangka @ Novak USA themselves ;)

[Malcolm Williams]

Most experienced TC members do get their info direct from source, though sometimes forget to name the source.

[ballsie]

Most experienced TC members do get their info direct from source, though sometimes forget to name the source.

I'm lost :confused:

[Dan]

I'm lost :confused:

Me too Ballsie,

Surely I am 'the horses mouth' as I am the organiser?

Help! ;) What do you mean?

BTW Just confirmed the list of goodies from Much More......WOW - you'll soon be drouling guys!

[ballsie]

Figured it out !

In an :offtopic: kind of way, Malky meant we don't steal info from other forums and post it as our own. I think this was just a general statement.

I'm sure he recognises you as the horses mouth in this instance :lol:

[big si]

so what speedo you going for ballsie

[ballsie]

Going to stick with what I know, so LRP Sphere TC spec. Bit of a stock problem on them at the moment though.

Should arrive in time for the SRCA though!

[big si]

sphere tc i didnt know there were different types

[Dan]

Yeah I know of the Sphere, Sphere Comp and Sphere Comp 2007 edition.

What's the TC Spec Ballsie?

D :cool:

[ballsie]

Yeah,

New version over the 2007 edition. Different internals etc. Specificially designed for TC racing as you might imagine.

Spec here - http://www.lrp-electronic.de/e/lis/02_Speedos/Sphere-Comp_TC/Sp-links-Sphere_Comp-TC.html (use the links on the left hand side).

[Malcolm Williams]

You got it Alan, Ta for that.
Dan the horses mouth meant the Organiser or the Sponser, not sure which, the TC member got it from as have not bothered to check it out M8
Malky

[Dan]

You got it Alan, Ta for that.
Dan the horses mouth meant the Organiser or the Sponser, not sure which, the TC member got it from as have not bothered to check it out M8
Malky

Ok mate, no worries ;)

[Dan]

13800 rpm/volt YES PLEASE!! With a built in fan too :)

http://www.speedpassion.net/

[Malcolm Williams]

I agree Dan, question is will the diffs standup to that power?
Ha Ha

[Dan]

I agree Dan, question is will the diffs standup to that power?
Ha Ha

I'd like to find out just for fun!

[Maxxed_Ross]

Sorry to bring this back up again but I'm hoping to be getting a brushless system soon... what do you guys recon is the best one to go for?

Bearing in mind I'll be using it at the odd outdoor event and at the club next season if brushless gets voted in.

[Dave]

After speaking to garry, I understand the LRP/Nosram speedos and the Novak motors are the best combo

The ISTC version of the speedo allows lower turn of both brushed and brushless aswell.

Don't know if they have the Lipo cut off tho?

The turn of motors are really 13.5 for 19T racing and 4.5 for mod. That is what Niall and Stephen were running at SRCA Rnd 1.

[ballsie]

I can't fault the LRP Sphere TC edition and either the LRP or Orion motors.

Novak stuff looks pretty good too. Make sure whatever one you get has a sintered rotor.

Cheers.

[Maxxed_Ross]

cheers guys, I'll go look into them

[Maxxed_Ross]

is this the kind of price I should be expecting to pay? Seems a bit steep for just the speedo

http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_1021&products_id=22850

[madmac]

Used The LRP Sphere on Sunday, it was awesome running brushed and brushless, only wee problem is the fan on top now has wee chips out of the fan with all the stones it picked up. We ran the LRP 4.5 brushless for practice, very fast and superb brakes. On 19 turn brushed the speedo was great, it didnt like the wet much thou, shut down on Alan after 2 corners.

Regards
Mark Ewing

[big si]

the sphere is a nice bit of kit but sounds weird with the brushless motor.
i love my novak GTB with the 4.5R motor sounds like it should and goes even better.

mark any luck with the under bodies bud?

[madmac]

Yeah i was supprised at the noise, i can only think it was the sintered rotor, the brakes were pretty awesome, just going to order another 4.5 LRP for the Much More GP. Ordered the underbodies yesterday Si, Hopefully we wont need them for any more of the scottish rounds.

[big si]

magic bud

[Racing Snake]

hopefully won't need the underbodies lol

you race outdoors in scotland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ballsie]

Yeah i was supprised at the noise, i can only think it was the sintered rotor

I've never had mine apart but seeming the noise is down to a built in fan to make it run cooler - found this info on another forum.

[madmac]

We ran the brushless at the weekend, ok i'm not the fastest driver but i ran it till the cells went flat, the motor was hot but not to hot you couldnt hold your hand on it, was well impressed with the performance and the braking was unbelivable.....

Regards

Mark Ewing

[Dave]

i would even start a bet to see if you could desolder it :lol:

Do you want to keep this bet up as garry desoldered his 13.5 lol

[Garrypd160]

Actually it was Allan. But it desoldered the motor, the cells, the windings inside that can, the whole works.